Jaimie: Well, my guest today is the fabulous Tina tower. And Tina started her first business at the age of 20, turning a tiny suburban tutoring center and educational toy store into a licensed program, and then a national franchise with 35 begin bright centers and 120 staff by the time she was 27 after selling the company to an international education business in 2016 Tina shifted gears and began coaching service based business owners on how to scale, teaching the fundamentals that she'd mastered through years of hands on experience. Now, when she found herself repeating the same strategies to high level clients, she turned her frameworks into an online course, and it absolutely took off. Now in her 40s, Tina continues to grow her empire, alongside her dogs, who are here with us today and a dream team. Her programs have helped hundreds of women package their expertise into high impact online courses and her flagship membership program, her Empire Builder, is one of the most trusted and loved communities for female course creators. I have been a part of that community for over three years now. Tina's mission is simple to help more women lead successful, wealthy lives by doing work that they love, work that brings freedom, impact and joy. She's the best selling author of one life and million dollar micro business, and has been featured on The Today Show spy business in the financial review, and was named Telstra National Young Business Woman of the Year, an Australian Business Champion. She also believes power, that business can be a powerful force for good. Through her charity, the kakua Foundation, Tina funds scholarships for girls in Kenya and holds a un diploma to further her work in helping contribute positively to the world. And Tina has changed my life in the world of business since I first joined her empire builder in April. 2022 is that right? Yeah. 2022 I've made over half a million dollars in course sales through her limited launch formula. I follow it to a tee. I basically do everything that Tina says. Tina Tower, welcome to Pitch Perfect.
Tina: Thank you, Jaimie, it's so nice to have you here in my office.
Jaimie: I know this is my office because so professionally set up, and I've come in here and you said you've got any questions? I'm like, No, I'm just winging it.
Tina: I love winging it. I'm nothing, but, like, chilled. I'm a full wing it person. Yeah, good.
Jaimie: Well, I guess I didn't need to really ask you one question, and we can just spend it. What's the secret? How do we all make a million dollars online?
Tina: Right? I mean, like to answer it properly. I actually think it's simple, but it's not easy. I really I think there's there's different things that you can do, there's frameworks you can follow, the structure you can follow, and it's just rinse and repeat and consistently in being able to do that, but it's hard, and we're all solved this idea that it is easy, and a lot of people think they're missing something, or that it should be easier than what it actually is. And I think that's where a lot of people get tripped up, is that they think it should be easier, but it really is relentless, ongoing with a combination of things.
Jaimie: Yeah. I mean, I hate when you see these people say, I only work two hours a week, and I earn a million dollars a week because I know it is so much work behind the scenes. And if you follow my formula, it's similar to what you teach the whole eight day, doors open, doors close, and then we have a webinar. We have a challenge. And that's what I've been doing for the last three years, and it's worked for me. I think I did 33k my first launch, and up to 66k and I'm about to go into my my my next launch of paid to speak. Do you think that what worked three years ago still works today?
Tina: That exact winning formula, some of it, so it's working differently. And I will come back and say, there are people I know that do make millions of dollars a year and only work 10 hours a week, but the thing that they omit is how much money and how much profit they're giving to teams. So I think that's something that your people hear and you go, I want that too, but they may be operating on a 20% profit margin because they're paying like an OBM top dollar to actually run the business. Someone's got to run the business. So I just want to say that there. But what's working now that's differently an eight day live launch is still the winner chicken dinner. I have tried lots of different variations, but what's working well is we used to be able to do like one webinar at the start, one kind of at the end, game over. Was super exciting. It's not enough now. We need a lot more touch points, a lot more connection. The three or four day challenge is working better than anything else, which I know you have coming up for your pay to speak, page, earn, challenge, speak and speak and challenge. There we go. So that is coming up, and that will work really well, because it's almost like with so much more competition on the internet than what they used to be, trust levels are down, cynicism is up. And so to be able to spend more time with you and go, Ah, she actually knows what she's talking about, and I can see myself being able to get a result with this, then that's what people want to see. Then not as excited. I know when I first started, so I started in online in 2016 and when I did the first one, and you could run a webinar, and people were so wowed, because not everyone was running a webinar. So you know, you'd share a countdown time or some little video, people like, I can't this is amazing, and I would sell on there, and my bonuses would expire at the end of the webinar. So I would get to the end of, like, the pitch, and then I'd say, Okay, I'm going to do Q and A for 15 minutes. If you buy in the next 15 minutes, these are the bonuses that you get. And I would have my email open, and I'd see and I'd be welcoming. Welcome Jaimie, it's great to have you here. Welcome Rebecca. It's great to have you here, and they'd be jumping in while we were doing that. Now that doesn't work at all. Like, that's too much pressure, too much scarcity. People be like, oh, like, it's so now we give like, 72 hours after if I was doing a one off webinar, I wouldn't do it any closer than that, because people, like, No, right? But they still want some sort of scarcity. That's why you still do the limited launch formula. And I wish that wasn't the way. I mean, I would love for evergreen to work more than live launch. Live launch, as you know, is a lot of effort. It's a lot of putting yourself out there. I'm always exhausted by the end, but happy, happily exhausted. And I love that we have like two we've launched twice a year. So we do two really concentrated times, and then when I'm off that I can hermit a little bit more and just focus on serving people I love that you don't have to be selling all the time.
Jaimie: But yeah, it's, it's a lot, yeah, I mean, I'm an extrovert, and it drains me. Yes, there's nothing like live. I mean, at the same time, though, I love doing all the reels, and I've been doing all the dance. It's hard to believe, but I'm in the zone now, and I love the dancing reels, the lip syncing reels, making a fool of myself. And every time launch rolls around, I go, that's right, I forgot how much fun this is. How much fun Do you have doing reels? Or do you do them just because you have to? And you know, they convert, you know, they build up that, know, like and trust factor.
Tina: Good question, little bit of both. So I don't love reels, like you love reels. I don't know if anybody does. I like getting creative with it, but, I mean, there's things that you would do that I would never do, like, what, oh, like, you know, you dance up the middle of the I mean, I've got some dancing ones, but just, you know, you're singing ones and going like, you get so creative and have so much fun with it, which I think is wonderful. And I think everyone like when you hit success, it's because you've embraced who you are and the way you are. And so my style and the way I do it, I'm a little bit more a type straighty, 180 nerdy. And so I'll talk more, more things around around, like having to, like thought leadership style stuff. I will do some fun things and some cheeky things, but, but know when you're on the scale that that you can do, because it's natural for you, whereas it's like when you 2022, when you first started in online, it was the it was the age of reels, like everyone was what was getting you, a lot of the likes, and a lot of the engagement, and a lot of the click through was, like, all the lip syncing ones and the dancing, and some people were super natural at that. Like, you can do it, and because you fully commit and go all in on it, it's like, it works, yeah, for a lot of people that that's not naturally in your wheelhouse, it's very awkward and icky, and it makes you feel awkward and icky just watching it. And so that's never going to work for that person. And so as much as it does work, I would say, if it's not working for you, don't do it. You've got to do what is right for you. And so I love face to camera reels. I love educating. I'm a teacher by heart, so that works for me. But we were talking before we went on it like B roll is working really well for a lot of people, and that's super easy to be able to do. So in terms of, do I do it? Because I have to, I would say, if I didn't have a business, I would never be on social media. Again, I would 100% disappear off the face of the earth. And when I eventually finish with this business, our plan is to go on a sabbatical and disappear for three years, no emails, no phones, no internet, no social media, none of it. Just keep it all there. And so I kind of go I do it because it works so well, but I don't hate it. I do. I do like connecting with people. I do like the creativity and the marketing, but I'm an introvert at heart, and I would love to never be on the internet ever. So there's so many questions flowing through to my brain now, but just one thing, you are a data person and talking about reels. We were talking backstage before about how one of my reels has gone viral. It's just me riding a little kids bike in a caravan park, and it so the time of recording, this has had 134,000 views. Fortunately, I feel like it is converting. It's brought my cost per lead down, all that sort of thing. But I can't understand why. There's no cleavage, there's no me crashing the bike. There's nothing about it, just boring B roll footage. In fact, we used AI to create it, caption editing everything. Does that baffle you that you can't crack the algorithm, and you've got some reels and and different videos performing so well, and you don't understand why? Yeah, well, I mean, I think it's, I think it's showing who you are again, because I'd look at that and I'd go, you riding a bike down the street in a caravan park. You're selling a program for professionals on how to professionally monetize their expertise and speak from stages like you're going for quite a corporate professional person. And a lot of your conversion happens when you being a goose? Yes, you know, yeah. And so I find that really interesting, that people, I think one of the weirdest parts about marketing and online business is we have to be entertaining. And that is, I think, one of the most challenging parts for people that don't feel like they're entertaining people, and you have to, if you want to be successful at it. If we go back to your first question on I want to make a million dollars, you have to embrace that. You have to be entertaining online. You have to show up and do it. And you have to know that, yes, there's different things that we know works, but also there's spanners in the works all the time that you're like, what? Why?
Yeah, something that would fit exactly the algorithm of the time tanks, and then something else that you're like, this shouldn't work, and it goes through the roof. Yeah. So it's, it's hard to know sometimes, which is why you've got to do all different types. That's why you've got to do some B roll, some basic camera carousel, static posts. I mean, static posts weren't working. My last super popular place was just a one photo, oh, just one post, because I thought I haven't done it for a while, so I check it and see how it goes, and it went right up. So I'm like, Huh? But then the next one I did didn't, so you just got to do all the things all the time. Yeah, it's so funny. You saying that you would not be on social media if it wasn't your business. Because one of the things that attracted me to you, I didn't know you. But apart from, we're both brunette, we have, we love Delta Goodrem, I think now I know you don't have a lot of when I was looking at you, remember selling that, but when I was looking at your reels and stalking your business, we do, and we both have partners who are six of May I remember that we have two boys. Okay, the list is probably but I was attracted to you and your business style and your program because of this extroverted persona that you put out there. And it's interesting to say behind the scenes, you're not forcing yourself, but you're doing it because you have to fast forward to today. We've traveled the world together. We've been to Hawaii. It's in that beautiful mansion, Palm Springs or LaRue port, Douglas Gold Coast, a couple of times. And I now know that you are an introvert. Yeah. So when I say that, I remember, we're in Hawaii, and it wasn't just you. I mean, most of the people that are why are you going back to your room for some quiet time? And everyone went to their room for quite sad I was in a bar, and I was like, sitting there, ever leave Jaimie alone? Yeah. And so I guess, you know, the world of online, course, creation, you seem to attract introverts, because we're behind a computer and that sort of thing. So, you know, what are your thoughts on that? Yeah, as far as the persona you're putting out there looks like you're an extrovert, dancing, jumping into pools, falling off unicorn floaties in Palm Springs to what you are like, yeah, behind the scenes. Well, I would say I never pretend to be someone I'm not. Yeah. So people could misconstrue it as extroversion, because you're seeing just that little snippet online. But I have ADHD, and I'm very excitable, and I get very enthusiastic about what I do, but that's like a short fuse. That's a short burn. And so when I'm doing it, I'm super excited, but I go to bed at eight o'clock at night, and I don't get up until seven o'clock in the morning, and so I sleep a lot. I spend a lot of time alone. I mean, I think online business is probably easier for me than it is for you, because although most of the work that I do is spent alone behind my computer, creating stuff. So it's quite an introverts dream. Yeah, I only have to have, like, a few bursts of being online, and then I can go back into my shell, whereas I sometimes go, Gosh, it must be hard for the extroverts that are like, give me more people, and you're just talking to a blank Yeah? You're sitting there writing an email sequence. You just want to be recording reels and engaging. Yeah, let me play my upcoming launch. I haven't done the email sequence. Haven't done any of the offers or anything, but I've done all the reels in the early days. I need a partner. I need someone who is the extrovert, because if I could be the introvert behind and do all the strategy and all the things and build the business and have someone be the performer at the front. Oh my gosh. What a dream team that would be. So I looked for that for a while, and then was like, Yeah, that's so funny. I mean, talking about the introvert, extrovert thing, I do want to take it to speaking, yeah, because I've had many discussions with you before, and even when you go to your website, because if I type in Tina tower speaking either does bring up your speaker here, but it's not something that you can organically go to through your website. And you said it's because you don't love it. You don't want to do a lot of paid speaking, whereas people that are listening to this podcast or joining my programs or my challenges, they want to get paid to speak. Why is that not the case for you? So I think speaking like I love what you do, and I think it's so necessary. I do think if you want to promote your business, speaking is one of the best skills that you can have. And so I did a program similar to yours way back in the day, like probably 2006 because I couldn't speak. I couldn't get up in front of people every time, like I was at a book launch, I'd written a chapter in 2006 in one of Dale Beaumont books, Secrets of small business owners exposed. And that was the first time I had got up in front of people that I didn't know and spoke, and I vomited beforehand, and in my hand, because it was before you had lapel mics, they weren't invented yet, so my hand was just shaking like crazy with the mic, and I was so humiliated and so embarrassed, but also so many opportunities came out of doing that. I then got a lot of media, and I was in a lot of the magazines and the online and the newspapers, and I was like, I didn't have to pay for any of that. So I was like, I need to learn how to do that so I can get marketing without actually having to pay for it. Because up until then, I know this is dating, how old I am, but I pay like, $700 for an ad in the local business paper. Like, I don't have to do that at all. I'll learn to speak if it means not paying the money. And so I went did a speaking course. I learned how to speak. It took me ages. The speaking coach got me to do one a week for 12 weeks, so that she's she was like, repetition is the only thing that's going to get over your stage, right? Like, you can theorize all you want about it, but you need to prove to yourself that you're not going to die, that you're okay. And so I threw up, probably for the first four or five, yeah, and then I just felt really nauseous, but I didn't throw up anymore. So that was a win. And then my hands stopped shaking after about two minutes in. So it just got less and less. And then when I sold begin right by the time I'd sold that to 2016 I'd gotten pretty good at it. So then I was like, Well, what am I going to do now? I was kind of in between. You know, who do I want to be when I grew up? I'd run that business for 13 years, so I didn't know which way to go, and because I'd sold his company, and because I was really young when I did it, I was getting a lot of speaking opportunities. So I was like, I'll try this on for a size like, let's I was talking to some other friends who were professional speakers, and they were telling me how much money they made. And I was like, oh, that sounds nice. Like, you know, in for a day, and they paid $10,000 like, that's incredible. So I started doing it. And so I had probably six months of being a professional speaker. I was on the bureau, I was speaking at conferences, different things, and I did. I hated it. Yeah, I felt like I was such a product and a commodity, and that I was, I couldn't like people had a view of me that wasn't me, because it was just all this. They only saw what was on the stage. And so I found it like a really weird thing was I'd go to these events that I was speaking at, and I'd walk in, and granted, I was pretty young at the time, but I'd walk in and I like, go and say hello to people. I go, Hi Auntie, how you guys. And people kind of stubbed me a little talk to me. And I felt because I'm very short too. I'm five foot tall, so I'd stand in like this and just kind of like, cow down to be like, okay, they don't want to be my friend, that's okay. And so I go and just, you know, mingle amongst the people. Just stand at the side and just smile and nod politely. And then I'd be on stage and speak, and I'd come off, and there'd be a line of people lined up to talk to me, to ask me questions, treating me like I was this mystical human and I'm like, You didn't even want to say hello to me before. This is so weird. It was so weird to me, and because I was doing a lot of speaking, where I was like, the Hired Gun for the speaking. It wasn't really, I remember one of my last ones was at, was it Optus or CommBank? One of the two of those, like, really corporate audience. They were managers at, I think it was Optus. So there were managers at Optus, and they had me talking about how to live a freedom filled life. I was talking about, like, work, life balance, and I'm going, these people are in a corporate office in Sydney. They're working from eight to they're living my nightmare. These people and me talking about my life, I just felt like I was an asshole. Because I'm going, basically, my message was, leave your job. This is terrible. Go and get a business. Like, I don't know how anyone lives life without having a business. How do you raise children? How do you do what you want? Like, where's the flexibility and the freedom? And so I'm leaving going, they've just paid me $12,000 to tell most of their managers to quit. Essentially, like, This is wrong. So then after that, I decided I don't want to be a professional speaker, but I don't mind speaking for free. So if there's places where, because I don't mind, I'd quite enjoy the pop up ones. So if there's a friend of mine that's putting on a conference, and they're like, Tina's over to come, I'll come, and I'll love that conference. I'll enjoy it. I'll talk to everyone. I'll do my speaking. Get off. But I don't feel the pressure of they've paid me $10,000 to do this. I have to, like, give massive value and perform. It's like, I can just go in rock star it and then leave. Yeah, I get it. I do get that. So speaking of you, mentioned there a couple of things people's view of you, and also it really resonates with me in a different context, how people didn't talk to you until they realized who you were. So I have had a huge transformation, as you have lost a lot of weight, got healthy, got beat, looking and feeling great. And I, for one, have now got people coming up to me, you know, go to an event in Newcastle or Sydney, for example. They never spoke to me when I was 130 kilos, but now, all of a sudden, they're coming up and talking to me there may be kind of a little bit annoyed at first, but I thought people are attracted to people who look after themselves. Yeah, I'll be the same people. People see someone who's taking pride in their their life, their health, their happiness, and they're attracted to that. How's the experience been for you?
Tina: So I would say I probably don't go to enough places.
Jaimie: Oh, online, I suppose. Yeah, online, um, how has that experience been?
Tina: So, I mean, I wouldn't say I have more opportunities now than I used to, and I don't really go to events that aren't my own. Okay, so different. I have been to a couple probably. So I started really losing weight about 18 months two years ago, nearly two years ago now. And so really, the last few that I've been, I've probably been to three conferences that are not my own in that time. And so the last one I went to people just like, double talk a lot. Like, you know, they look at you and go, whoa, whoa, you are different. And if I say anything to you in person, yeah, I do, yeah, tons of people. I always find it really interesting to go, like, how much people do say out loud and you go, Uh huh, yep. Okay, that's not awkward at all. What do they say? You're hot now, yeah, or, um, wow, you've lost a lot of weight, like, just, just the, you know, the obvious thing, yeah. And I know it's out of curiosity and the interest in it, but it was a very like to me. It was, I didn't do it for anyone but myself. Like that was, that was my, core of it, I didn't do it because I had someone that works in body positivity saying that they were really disappointed in me for losing weight, because I had always been a big supporter of body positivity, and that that hurt my heart a little bit. I was going, you know, I am in the body positivity, and I think that whatever size anyone is comfortable in is the right thing. And I didn't lose weight because I wanted to look better online. That wasn't anything to do with it. I lost weight because I was feeling unhealthy. I was feeling heavy. I was feeling like, physically, I couldn't do the things that I wanted to be able to do, like snowboard down the mountain with my kids and go hiking. Like, just before I started losing weight, on a trip with Matt, and yeah, we were going on these basic, basic hikes, and I was near death at the top. I was like, doubled over, and I couldn't ride the bike properly. I was like, this isn't, this isn't what I want to leave time 104 and I want to be vibrant, and I want to be fit and I want to be strong. That's why I did it. And so, yeah, it's been interesting, the messages that have come back from that, in in reconciling that, and what people's perception publicly of that is, but it has nothing to do with anybody else.
Jaimie: Yeah. Okay, so I'm at the moment, going through a phase where I'm doubting the sisterhood. It was like, you know, you go, girlfriend, when I was bigger, but now I'm I've gone from 128 to 78 kilos. So 50 kilo weight loss. People are sort of saying to me, oh my gosh, you keep using filters, same filter for three years. No one had a problem I was bigger. Or you keep getting your boobs out when I was 128 kilos. And I've just feel like the women have really turned so it's a bit disappointing. So it's good to hear you kind of haven't had a lot of that.
Tina: Yeah, I haven't had any of that, but I have experienced that with wealth. So for me, I think that so it's this thing of, I don't think it's the tall poppy syndrome thing, but one thing that I, you know, lamented over quite a bit was when I was struggling, when business was struggling, and on that build stage, when you say, like, this is everyone supports you, everyone's like, you can do it, like, one more step at a time, like you're there, and then you get over that tipping point and under that precipice where you finally created everything you dreamed that You would create, and more like, success Feels good, feels great, but then no one supports you anymore. So I have noticed very much, like I have people saying I'm unrelatable. People saying, well, it just like I noticed that support of everybody, even comments on social media when I was coming up and running through like, everyone comments and supports you now, you know, everyone's like she's already got it, like, leave her. So it's, I've noticed it with that. Yeah, is that sort of a sign of their own insecurities? Do you think, like coming out? I just think people think, they think maybe, I mean, I have no idea. I think maybe people think like she's got it now. So I think it's a bit of jealousy. I'm gonna call it.
Jaimie: Yeah, I'm laughing, because we've got this such a professional setup here. And I said, oh, let's go for 20 minutes. Such a professional like, if you can't, if you're listening to this is beautiful, lights and camera set set up. And then Matt Tina's puppy has just scribbled on a piece of paper 17 minutes, held it up with the end written no smiley face on it. So that's COVID indicated to me, we're at the sweet spot. And I have so many more things I'd love to ask, but I guess just one final thing apart from joining the waitlist to her Empire Builder, what is the number one tip you can give people who are sort of starting their entrepreneurial journey, starting their speaking journey, just I attract a lot of people who wanted to promote themselves, and I know there's not one thing. It's all the things, right? It's guesting on podcasts, it's speaking. It's showing up, doing stories online, supposedly loves. But what is your probably the number one? I know you get asked this all the time, but if the first step in that journey, apart from joining the wait list for her Empire Builder or joining Paid to speak. What is the one sort of point people should look to going if they want to start promoting themselves?
Tina: I mean, do you want it super practical, or do you want to I'll give you both. Can I give you both? What's What's the other apart from practical? Well, it sounds trite, but I think know why you're doing it right? Because there's all the strategies. People can get the strategies from me. They can get the strategies from you. But what I find separates people from actually getting there and the people that get stuck is knowing why you're doing it, because especially people listening to your podcast, everyone's trying to get yourself, like, build your profile and not not many people are as confident or extroverted as you are. And so I would say a lot of people will get stuck because you you're afraid of judgment. And there is a lot of judgment mentioned that today, and so you have to be okay with that. And I know I hear people say, you know, nobody's worried about you, nobody's paying attention, but they are, yeah, and online, one of the weirdest parts is they'll actually write it to you. It's not like back in the day before we had social media, but it's they'll actually tell you. So I think, know you why? Because when you do the hard things, like showing up on podcasts and standing on the stage the first time with your handshaking, going into media, being in a podcast, like whatever it is, it's going to be difficult, and you need to know why you're doing it, so that you're willing to do the difficult things to get yourself to where you want to go. That's the psychological thing. That's the psychological thing, yeah. And then the practical thing is, put a camera in front of your face, yeah. Okay, get your phone, lift it up, start using your voice just on stories, hone your message so you know what you actually think and care about, and start sharing your voice and just documenting what you're doing in the moment. Do you think like behind the scenes? It doesn't have to be polished. The more casual, the better it is.
Jaimie: Yeah, I totally agree with that. People think it has to be this big, scripted thing that's put so much unfortunately, more casual actually works better. Yeah. Look like what about my infected toe that time?
Tina: Don't, please note to everybody, don't ever put your infected toe too far, too far.
Jaimie: That was memorable, right? I had an infected toe in Port Macquarie and put it on social media, and Tina tower was disgusted. Yes, yes. If I had my time over, I'd still do that. Brings us to the end our 20 minute magical sweet spot. But yeah, thank you so much, Tina for coming on to Pitch Perfect, and thank you for everything you've shared with me. And you know you, I know you're constantly learning yourself and keeping up to date with the latest in AI. We didn't even talk about AI.
Tina: Don't geek out on AI.
Jaimie: Oh, I know, I know. But you know, check out AI for course, creators, if you want to check out that particular area of expertise, but thank you for everything, personally and professionally.
